SPEAKER 1: The Central City Commission
of its recommendation for the use of the $2 and 1/2 million
allocated for the Central City Mall Project.
The council voted to pursue the matter of the Central City Mall
Project, so to speak, and we ask the Central City Commission
to take back all of the information which
it had received from the several hearings and the public meeting
that we had--
To be in the plan at that moment,
and we asked them to do it with a million
less than they had originally thought they would get.
Mr. Clements is here.
We'll make a presentation for the commission.
Mr. Clements.
MR. CLEMENTS: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of council.
The commission has wrestled with, I think,
a very difficult assignment, which you gave us
some time ago, and that was to come back with in effect
an approved projects, but with a million dollars less spent.
A great deal of time, thought, and consideration
has been given the problem.
We have listened to, I think, a number
of people who wish to comment on it.
And as a result, have made some changes in the program.
Obviously, it's impossible to progress on it
the way we would like to have moved on, because
of the lack of funds.
But we have come up with what I think
is a most effective program, and, hopefully,
it can be adopted by the council certainly in the near future.
I would like to stress to the council the very tight time
constraints under which we are working with discussion with
our Halpern and Associates, particularly aware of the fact
that we cannot disrupt the business community during
the Christmas season.
It's imperative that a decision be
made by February 1, as to whether or not
we go on with this project, and if so, to what degree.
Our reasoning is simply this, that we are now
some three to four months behind schedule in our original time
frame.
At best, if we can instruct the architects to proceed
on this project by February 1, it would be June 1, 1973--
1974, excuse me, before we would be able to begin work.
It's essential that by mid November of 1974,
that this work be brought to a satisfactory conclusion
so that the downtown area can be turned back
over to the merchants for their normal Christmas season.
Therefore, the very best time that we can hope for
is an early decision by February 1,
so that working drawings could be approved
on a go ahead status for the mall itself,
with actual construction to begin on June 1, 1974.
We would propose that the $2 and 1/2 million dollar
project be put together in the following manner.
First, that the sum of $250,000 be expended
for traffic improvements.
This is a necessary single change
and complementary improvements to be
able to provide a perimeter type traffic circulation
around the downtown area.
We propose, secondly, that a $1,045,000
be expended for the building of the Main Street Mall
from the CNO Station, or in front of City Hall,
to the Vinegar Hill Area.
One of the areas that we've had to cut substantially
is the additional side street improvements.
We have now reduced that to four,
and those of you who would like to turn around,
can see that projected on the proposed Downtown Project
there, where we've reduced to four
the number of connecting mall streets,
which would go tow to Water Street and two
to Market Street.
Sum of $250,000 would be necessary
for those connections.
We're proposing that $150,000 be spent for the City Hall Plaza.
Now, that's a little bit misleading
in that a great portion of the funds that we're
speaking of there would have to be expended
to make necessary improvements to the 7th Street traffic
artery there, in order to properly carry the traffic.
As you know, there's a small opening
now that connects 7th Street with Water Street,
and that would have to be improved considerably.
The one message that we got, I think,
very loud and clear from a number
of people who spoke to us, including, I think,
sentiment from city council, was that they would very much
favor the replacement of the Central Place,
because, as you know in the last presentation,
the commission had recommended that due to the lack of funds
we would have to cut this out of the project.
We were very fortunate, I feel, in being
able to negotiate favorably with the Kendricks
Corporation, the owners of the property at the corner of 2nd
and Main, and the council has already
been made aware of that, and I believe
is appropriated the funds to enter into contract
with the present owners.
The commission is suggesting, however,
that instead of spending the sum of $225,000 for the land,
that we buy the property, and request Halpern to design
a Central Place with approximately 9,000 square feet
of that area going back on the market
to be developed by private enterprise,
so as to bring additional businesses into the downtown
community.
I think this is one of the fallacies
that we've been working with thus far,
that we've torn down quite a number of buildings
when we proposed that the parking garage be constructed.
We've tore down a certain area, and we
have taken retail space away.
The fire, tragically, has taken certain retail space away.
We propose that this ought to be reversed.
That it's time now that we bring additional businesses back
into the community to help contribute,
not only to the total well-being, but to the tax roll
as well.
Therefore, we would project that for the Central Place,
a sum of $225,000 would be originally expended,
but it is with some very realistic hope, I think,
that the property, the remaining property,
could be put back on the market and could be sold for $125,000.
Therefore, we could net the Central Place land
cost at $100,000.
Now, this is considerably below what we originally
had thought the total cost of land might have been,
had we elected to stay in the 3rd and Main
location, which had been proposed sometime back.
So that is a major plus in my estimation for,
not only that the program itself,
but certainly the financing of it.
We would propose further the sum of $550,000
be allocated to the architects with their instruction
to use the funds in the manner in which they feel
is most fitting for the general benefit of the total plan,
while the development of the CNO Plaza,
for the Vinegar Hill Project, and for the Central Place.
The sum of $190,000, and this is approximate, because it would
depend on the final dollar amount of the project,
is allocated to architectural fees.
And this would leave us with a contingency fund of $115,000,
bringing the total project to $2 and 1/2 million.
I would like to point out that the recent publicity that's
been given this project, it's really
not a $2 and 1/2 million project in city capital funds.
It's really a $2 million project,
because $500,000 of this would come from a special assessment
to offset that.
I'd further like to point out to the council that
back in the 60s, the council, at that time, and it's been in--
or at least been in the talking stage ever since then,
had proposed a minimum of $1 million
be spent in the downtown area.
So that if we had had that fund simply set aside and resting
with good interest somewhere, we'd be up to the $2 million
dollar project that we're now preparing.
So I don't think that this is an inconsistent
request by any stretch of the imagination.
We would like to have the council authorize
the commission to, one, instruct Lawrence Halprin and Associates
to begin immediately working drawings for the mall,
and working drawings for the four side streets,
which connect the mall with Market and Water Street.
We would also like to have the council's authority
to authorize Halprin Associates to begin preliminary drawings
on the Central Place, Vinegar Hill Plaza, and the CNO Plaza.
And, again, I reiterate that time is
of the essence in this matter.
If we can't get approval by the 1st of February,
I really don't see any other solution
except to delay the project for an entire year,
because it's imperative that we be able to organize a project
and carrty it off in an orderly manner
so as not to interfere with the normal business
activity in the downtown area during of months of November
and December.
Thank you.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you very much, Mr. Clements.
You have gone before your committee
and done your job of bringing back a recommendation, which
is what we asked you to do.
Let me ask Mr. Hendricks if he has anything
that he wants to add at this moment
before I ask council if they have any questions.
After that, I will give members of the audience
an opportunity to raise questions that may come in.
Mr. Hendricks, do you have anything
that you want to point out, anything up here on the map?
MR. HENDRICKS: The only thing I would
like add, that in terms of time, that on the first of June,
this project is to proceed.
These side streets and Main Street would have been closed.
And prior to that time or simultaneously
with that closing, a new traffic control system
would have to be in place.
It might not be permanent at that time.
Might be some temporary signals.
But the one-way system would have
to be in operation and sufficient enough work done
by then to make that system operate.
The equipment that's needed to do that
takes anywhere from four to six months to get delivery.
There's also several months worth of design time
and preparation time to do that, so that--
and I think an additional request that the central city
commission needs to make is to authorize the council,
also, to tell the traffic engineering department
to proceed with their portion of the work
because they do need considerable amount
of lead time in order to accomplish what they need
to do before the first of June.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you, Mr. Hendricks.
Any questions by any members of council,
either of the commission of Mr. Hendricks?
Very quiet.
MR. CLEMENTS: Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you very much, Mr. Clements.
There may be some questions.
But you'll be sitting in the back of the room, I'm sure,
prepared to answer any questions.
Is there anyone in the audience who
would like to speak to this?
MR. OMANSKI: I would, Mr. Mayor.
SPEAKER 1: Yes, sir.
Mr. Omanski,?
Would you tell us who you are
MR. OMANSKI: I'm Harry Omanski.
Mr. Mayor And members of the city council,
I bring this as a matter of information to the council.
I participated in the past few days
in a survey contacting merchants and business
places in the downtown area.
We found that about 70% of those contacted
were opposed to taking traffic off Main Street and the side
streets.
We have a list of 45 firms that want traffic
to remain on these streets.
We are confident that removing traffic from streets
will be a detriment to the downtown.
To the extent of the loss, we feel, a 15% to 20%
in annual value.
We hope the council will take this under consideration.
SPEAKER 1: Mr. Omanski, let me ask you,
are you going to make the details of this survey
available to us?
MR. OMANSKI: Correct, yes.
We have a listing of the names.
SPEAKER 1: It does seem to be, I might say, somewhat
contrary to at least what we have
heard in most of the other sorts of surveys that have been made.
So I'll have to say that it comes as a surprise to me.
Anyone else?
Yes.
CAROL: My name is Carol [INAUDIBLE]..
SPEAKER 1: Would you come to one of these microphones, please?
CAROL: Like Mr. Omanski, I also took a quick survey of traffic
on Main Street.
And I've divided it up by cars on Main Street,
no cars on Main Street, and limited cars on the Main
Street.
And the result was that cars as is,
18 people or representatives were for it.
13 people were for no cars.
And six people were for limited cars.
So if you total that up, cars on Main Street
is 24 versus 13 for no cars.
So my survey goes along with Mr. Omanski's survey.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you very much, Miss [INAUDIBLE]..
SPEAKER 2: Information just about [INAUDIBLE] the merchant
or by [INAUDIBLE]?
CAROL: Merchant.
SPEAKER 1: Please give us the details
of the yours in written form so that we'll
have it for our records.
Thank you.
Anyone else wish to speak?
Yes, sir.
CARL DEAN: My name's Carl Dean.
I probably should have directed this to Mr. Clements sooner,
but did I understand Mr. Hendricks to say that--
or if council approves this, that the Main
Street and the side streets will be closed beginning in June?
For how long?
MR. HENDRICKS: Forever.
CARL DEAN: What about freight?
I mean, my place of business, we get freight every day,
we send out freight every day.
If Mr. Hendricks decides he wants
to buy a 110-pound barbell set, is he
going to take it down to the next loading zone
or am I going to take it down?
MR. HENDRICKS: Mr. Dean, we made a survey of all businesses
about a month ago, I guess, regarding their problems
of access, or loading, unloading, with regard
to refuse pickup and removal.
We found only a handful of businesses
that would have real problems in that they had no back alleys
that they could use.
They had no access to Water Street or to Market Street,
or were so far away or far removed from a side street
that they probably could not utilize them.
The side streets would be open during certain periods
for deliveries--
pickups and deliveries, in other words,
for you to get merchandise and maybe
for you to ship merchandise.
This would be true of, as I say, all except about a handful
so that it would be limited traffic
in terms of pickup and deliveries
on the side streets which would be available.
We've given all this data to the architects
and asked them to very carefully analyze it
and to incorporate it into their final design.
And they, I think, have taken just a cursory look at it
at this particular time.
But in doing so, they felt that right now,
other than a few, most everybody would
have ample pickup and delivery service via the side streets.
In other words, the side streets would
be closed to automobile traffic for through traffic,
but there would be periods of time
when they would be available for pickup and delivery.
CARL DEAN: How about the period from first
to June until this construction is completed?
MR. HENDRICKS: The same would be true.
CARL DEAN: But they would be open certain hours every day.
MR. HENDRICKS: Yes, the side streets [? would be open. ?]
SPEAKER 1: Mr. Hendricks, that would
be with the exception of the side streets
that you're working on.
MR. HENDRICKS: Well, that's right,
except for the side street that might be being worked on
at that particular time.
SPEAKER 1: Which amounts to four.
MR. HENDRICKS: There are four that are being
done as part of the project.
But those streets that would not be part of the mall
initially would also be closed.
But of course, they would be available to the same pickup
and delivery services with the others.
SPEAKER 1: Yes, sir.
Gentleman in the back.
LEE HOFF: My name is Lee Hoff.
SPEAKER 1: Yes, sir.
Would you use one of these two microphones, please, sir?
There is one right back there if you'd like to use that.
LEE HOFF: It doesn't work.
SPEAKER 1: Yes, it should.
LEE HOFF: My name is Lee Hoff.
I own the garage building right across from city hall.
It took me 30 years to pay for that building.
I've taken Mr. [INAUDIBLE] here down here
and showed him the building.
And if you all make an inspection there,
you'll find out that the basement
is leased to American Glass.
There's no way to enter the front from South Street
because there's two separate.
First floor is entirely separate.
I have a parking area, to tell you the truth.
As you all know Charlottesville, you
know I'm the only place that has a parking area for customers
by the business.
It's a service building for sales and service.
If the traffic is taken away from in front of my building
and trucks cannot come in there, the building won't be worth
anything after it took me 30 years pay for it.
And I think you all know which building it is, right
across the street.
It has three sides facing on the street.
When they said it changed the street before,
why, they took my parking area to the side of it,
but I didn't kick on that.
And if they isolate me from the Main Street from traffic,
the building will be no good.
So I'd like for you gentlemen to take that
into consideration when you think
about closing Main Street.
And I think the rest of the merchants on Main Street
know the same thing, that if you take the traffic off the Main
Street and make the Water Street and Market Street four lanes,
the nearest place for our customer
to come down to merchants on Main Street,
they'll be to park at least three blocks away because they
can't park on Water Street and they
can't park on Market Street because that's four lane.
So where you get your customers from?
If we want to make Disneyland out of Main Street,
well, the city should buy the whole thing
and set it up as Disneyland and charge admission for people
to come.
But you could run all the merchants off of Main Street.
And that's my opinion.
I've been in business in Charlottesville for 50 years,
and I think I know a little bit something I'm talking about,
and I wish you all would investigate that.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you, Mr. Hoff.
Do you own property going through to Water Street
from Main Street?
LEE HOFF: Yes, sir.
SPEAKER 1: I see.
So you do have property on Water Street.
Do you have parking?
LEE HOFF: The basement of the building faces on Water Street,
but that's leased out on long-term lease
to American Glass, and there's no way of getting
through it unless the city wants to condemn it,
and I'll take $500,000 for it.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 1: Anyone else wish to speak?
Let me call on anyone who has not yet spoken
before I go back a second time.
Yes, sir.
GERARD: Mr. Mayor, I'm Gerard [INAUDIBLE]..
I'm a merchant on Main Street.
I'm also a member of the commission.
Mr. Clements has spoken for our committee.
I, in turn, would like to second what he was saying.
Quite a few of us on that committee
were put on that by [INAUDIBLE] when he was first mayor, when
was that, six years ago?
And we've been working on this thing for many years now.
And in my opinion, I think we have come up
with a plan that is workable.
I'm sure we can't have a plan that's
going to be 100% for everybody on Main Street,
but I believe that we have a plan that is workable.
And I would like to reiterate the necessity of time on this.
And while I'm up here, I might say
that these two surveys that have been mentioned here,
I'm right in the middle of downtown.
And neither one of these people have been in my place.
So I'm not sure that all the merchants feel that way.
And I would certainly like to insist
that you people take this under consideration at your earliest
convenience.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you, Mr. [INAUDIBLE]..
Anyone else?
Yes, sir.
The gentleman in the back there.
PERRIN: My name is Perrin, and I'd just
like to get a little bit further explanation as
to the particular hours of freight coming in and out.
Everybody keeps talking about particular hours.
What are particular hours, and how do I
get freight lines to obey particular hours
coming into Charlottesville?
MR. HENDRICKS: I don't think those hours have
been designated or said at this particular time.
We realize that that's a problem.
If you get freight from a truck line
that operates through here on its way
to someplace else, that that may present problems
to some merchants.
We have tried to note in the survey
that we took any particular problems of that kind
in terms of trucks coming in the middle of the day.
Obviously, there's one store here
that has a tractor trailer pull up in front of the store
anywhere from noon to 4:00 in the afternoon,
and that sort of situation is not going
to be workable in the future.
But I think that within the bounds of reason,
that we will try to work out a schedule that will not
be a detriment to the pedestrian access, but at the same time
will provide adequate, or as adequate as possible,
hours for deliveries because certainly without deliveries,
you haven't got anything to sell.
PERRIN: Unless you have the hours, store hours,
you won't have deliveries because no truck
line or no delivery service is going
to regulate their hours coming from North Carolina,
going to DC or anyplace else, to the city of Charlottesville.
You won't get a truck driver to reroute a whole schedule just
to come to Charlottesville for one little delivery
of a box of tile or roll a carpet or a piece of tissue
paper.
They're not going to do it, and I wouldn't do it
if I were driving a truck.
And I don't believe you would, and I wouldn't expect
them to in any terms at all.
So I think you have to have delivery hours store hours.
If I've got a distributor in Richmond or Roanoke,
Virginia that has a truck that drives
a route throughout Virginia, he doesn't
know what time of the day or night he's going to get here.
Hopefully I'm going to be open, but that's
about as far as it goes.
Sometimes I've even waited for them until 7:00, 8:00 at
night because they run late in Harrisonburg or something.
I can't have a truck go all of the way
back and come back the next day and charge me double just
because he's got to deliver it.
No way.
And I think it's a definite consideration.
There's no such thing as particular hours in freight
delivery, and that's any commodity,
unless it's your own truck so that you can regulate it.
MR. HENDRICKS: Did you indicate that when the people came
around to talk to you?
PERRIN: Well, I don't really want
to get into the topic of what I was talked about
because what I was talked about was parking survey, basically,
whether I had any complaints to parking the way it was.
The mall wasn't brought into anybody
that asked me questions.
And quite frankly, I got absolutely nowhere
because I wasn't asked, so therefore I didn't discuss it.
I discussed exactly what I was asked,
and the whole topic of the mall per se was almost evaded.
So I got nothing out of the whole conversation
as far as knowledge goes, and neither
did the person that was talking to me,
obviously, as to what they were actually
trying to derive from me.
MR. HENDRICKS: They didn't talk to you about your problems
with deliveries?
PERRIN: Yeah, present.
Present is not the mall.
MR. HENDRICKS: Well, this was the whole basis,
was to find out what your present delivery system is
so that that could be incorporated
into the planning for the mall.
PERRIN: Well, what I'm getting at is this.
Presently, Floor Fashions of Virginia
is located at 421 East Main Street.
There's an alley in the rear that's now been closed
because 5th Street's closed.
So we have no delivery to 421 East Main Street.
We've asked for loading zones to be extended
through a prohibited area now.
We don't get that.
So we don't deliver down there what
we do is walk up and down 5th street because we can't drive.
We have trucks that have deliver to 5th and Market,
and then we have to roll goods down the sidewalk
if we want it down for 421 East Main Street.
We've now rented this building from Mr. Hoff.
Try that on for size.
Now we're going to be closed down here, too.
That's 12,000 foot of space that's
going to go to waste on one floor alone,
and there's no way you're going to build a ramp down to Water
Street down the backside of that building
because it'd be so steep a truck couldn't get up it.
And you're not going to elevator merchandise
the size of ours up a little elevator without major expense.
So I think it's worth consideration.
SPEAKER 1: Mr. Hendricks, it was my understanding
that the survey that was made had
to do with what problems there would
be in access if this plan was carried
through, that is, a plan of closing Main Street
and having a mall.
I think this is what--
PERRIN: This is not what was discussed with me.
Perhaps it was my negligence, but it was not
discussed with me.
SPEAKER 1: Well, I thought that the form said something
about problems with access and had to do with the mall.
PERRIN: [INAUDIBLE] form filled out no more.
SPEAKER 1: I see.
Anyone else?
LEE HOFF: Mr. Mayor?
SPEAKER 1: Mr. Hoff, I would like to call on other people
to speak unless you--
LEE HOFF: I have a few things to say, and that is this,
is that Mr. [INAUDIBLE] here can explain about my building
because I took him down there and he looked it over.
And he said that he didn't see any way
I could get to Water Street at all,
that he'd tried to do something about it.
SPEAKER 1: Yes, sir.
Anyone else wish to speak on the subject?
Yes, sir.
HENRY MACK: Mr. Mayor and ladies and gentlemen of the city
council, I'm Henry Mack.
I think just for the pro side of this,
so the antagonistic problems, which
are certainly very real problems and are
certainly, I'm sure, close to anyone's heart who
would try to stand in their shoes,
we should realize, though, that in any major undertaking,
someone always is going to be hurt.
Reminds me of when I started converting the Monticello
Hotel.
I was almost afraid to go in there
and eat because so many people did not want us to do it.
Yet now that we are getting toward the end of it,
just about everyone says this is a very fine thing that you've
done and so forth and so on.
Consequently, I think the way to solve
these problems are twofold.
One is to give the information to the architects
so that they might have a chance to construct the mall
to serve the needs of the existing merchants.
But at the same time, if the existing merchants
and businesses that we had were doing the volumes of business
and paying the taxes, we probably
never would have thought of this project to start with.
Consequently, we must look forward
to the new merchants who have come in
and possibly use some of the space
that these gentlemen might now own and are concerned
about because they don't know who those new merchants are,
and they don't know that they'll get their,
quote, $500,000 for their building.
Maybe they will if this mall goes through.
But I think just the other side of the coin
should be brought out in a public hearing at this time,
and not all of us just dwell on the negatives
that are bound to be there.
Thank you.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you Mr. Mack.
Anyone else wish to speak?
Yes, sir.
HOWARD CRISPIN: My name is Howard Crispin.
I'm not a business man downtown, I guarantee you.
But I am a taxpayer, and I have some questions.
We hear opposition from the business community,
and we hear a lot of comments about what
all this is going to do for the people of Charlottesville.
And I would really like to know what
it is going to do for the people of Charlottesville,
for the people who are paying the taxes, the $2 million
that you talk about that's going into this brickyard
that you want to put out here.
I don't see where we're going to get the benefit.
You haven't improved any access to the downtown business area
that I can see.
You've made it no easier for us to shop
in Charlottesville downtown.
And I would like to see some of the answers as to how
it's going to benefit us who have to pay this $2 million.
SPEAKER 1: Mr. Hendricks, you want to have a shot at that?
MR. HENDRICKS: We've been through this a good many times
before, but I'll be glad to go through it again.
There are a number of things that
need to be done in order to make a downtown a vital part
of the community.
We have relatively good information
based on economic data done by a consulting firm
which says, in effect, that because of the growth
of the area around the city--
which happens to be located in the county,
and which the city will not have much chance of making part
of the city in the future--
that at least one, probably three major shopping areas
will be built in those areas in the near future.
These particular shopping areas are
going to take a great amount of sales
in order to make them successful.
The area is not going to grow proportionately with the sales
that it's going to take to support those shopping centers.
And so their sales, if they're to even break even,
are going to have to come downtown and from existing
shopping centers within the city,
so that if we began to look at downtown as a basic part
of the community, as a vital part of the community, then
we've got to keep it alive.
And we think that something has to be done in order
to attract more people downtown than are coming
down today in view of what's going to happen
in the near future to keep the retail area the same
as it is today, much less to improve it
in terms of retail sales.
The downtown area accounts for a considerable tax base
within the city of Charlottesville
so that their taxes help to maintain
the services of the city.
If we lose that tax base, then the rest of us have to pay more
or we have to reduce the services
to the rest of the community.
I don't think that anybody is saying
that downtown is going to collapse tomorrow,
or that this sort of thing is imminent.
But I think that the pattern has been set all over the country,
and those people who've tried to do something too late
have found that regardless of the amount of money
they've spent, that it's been wasted
because it has been too late.
I think there are a good many people in this community who
feel that it's not too late.
But the signs are there.
The signs, the first signs of decay
of what we know is going to happen out
in the outer urban fringe of the city,
tell us a lot more of what very likely can
happen in the future.
So we feel that now is the time to do something.
It's either now or never.
I'm sure there are those who would disagree.
But that's the conclusion that the Central City Commission
came to.
That's the conclusion that I have drawn myself,
for what that's worth.
Now in order to have a shopping area that is well used,
you first of all have got to have access to it,
which I think you mentioned.
That access is being provided in a number of ways.
5th Street is being improved from I64
into the downtown area.
Preston Avenue is being widened and improved
from the corner of Preston Avenue, [? Ridge ?]
MacIntyre to 10th Street.
Another project that is in the middle, probably won't
be done for a few years yet, is the widening
of MacIntyre Road to the bypass and its construction
on to the edge of MacIntyre Park connected with [? Ryer ?] Road
on out to Highway 29.
Now this is reasonably good access for a central city.
And that major access will be completed in about two, two
and 1/2 years.
And within five to seven years, I think all of that access
will be completed.
Now once you get access to a major shopping
area or a major business area, you've
got to be able to find a place to park.
That's the next criteria.
That's one reason the city is building the parking
garage next door is in order to provide
ample parking to supplement what's already here.
The Charlottesville Parking Corporation
is looking at some ways to improve their parking so
that the whole parking situation has been reviewed
and parking will be added.
Once a shopper or a person wanting to conduct business
gets to where he or she is going to park,
then it's a matter of wanting easy access from the parking
lot to where one is going to conduct business.
We think that that is provided.
From the location of the parking facilities,
that distance is reasonable in terms
of where one is going to shop or do business.
The next thing is one has to have
a pleasant atmosphere within which
to shop or to do business.
This is one of the reasons that covered mall shopping centers
have been so successful is that they
provide a pleasant atmosphere in which for people to shop.
Most of them are located on major arteries.
Therefore people can get there and they
can park adjacent to them.
And once they get inside, they have one big store
under one roof which, in actuality, is probably maybe
some 50 to 75 different stores, but they're all under one roof.
So the convenience and pleasantness of a shopping area
is another criteria.
And that's one of the things that the mall addresses itself
to, is providing a place which is pleasant for people
to shop and to do their business.
Now that's about the end of where government, I think,
has any role to play in this whole picture.
And we have taken steps, beginning
with the access, the parking, and the mall,
and addressed ourselves to each of these concerns.
From now on out, in this whole chain of events,
it's pretty much up to the individual entrepreneur.
There must be a wide selection of goods
for people to purchase.
In other words, there has to be good merchandise,
and that merchandise has to be displayed attractively.
There has to be a wide variety of it.
There have to be pleasant people to deal with in terms
of purchasing merchandise.
There have to be reasonable hours of shopping,
not when the merchant wants to merchandise,
but when people want to buy.
These items are all controlled by the individual merchant
or entrepreneur, whoever he or she may be.
That's just as vital, I think, probably, as the rest of it.
But I think the time has come for Charlottesville to take
a look at its downtown area.
And it isn't just downtown itself.
It's not just what's on Main Street
and what's on Water Street and what's on Market Street.
What is at stake is everything within, maybe,
a 10- or 15-block radius of downtown,
which includes many attractive areas of single family
and multifamily residences.
These are also at stake.
Because if downtown begins to decay,
begins to slide downhill for the reasons that I've mentioned,
then that decay begins to spread out,
and people no longer want to shop downtown
any longer because it isn't attractive.
It isn't pleasant.
And so people who have bought homes close by soon
find that they don't particularly care to shop
or do business downtown, either.
And so they begin to gravitate out
to the outer fringe, where the major shopping
centers have located also.
And as this process continues over a period of years,
two or three or four-- it's probably a period of 20 or 25
years--
then the whole urban core of the city has decayed.
And those people that have moved out
are replaced most often by people in the lower
economic group who can't afford to get outside
into this urban fringe area.
And so they are destined to stay in the heart of the city.
And they begin to move in, and the decay continues.
And if the city makes no attempt to have rehabilitation
programs, either for the business areas
or for the residential areas, the decay
continues unchecked until a point
that, at some time in the future, maybe 30 or 40 years,
the whole center of the city is completely decayed,
and that's all that's going to be left in Charlottesville.
If you had an area the radius of 15 or 20 blocks
around the downtown area that decayed
over a period of 30 or 40 years, there
wouldn't be much left in the city
except some residential areas on the outer fringes
and the University of Virginia.
Now that's probably a pretty bleak picture,
and I'm sure a lot of people don't buy it.
They say it isn't going to happen.
It couldn't happen in Charlottesville.
But all you have to do is to go to some
of the larger cities of this country
and take a look at what's happened.
Most of those cities now have seen their problem,
and they've taken steps to try to revitalize
their central cores through any number of programs.
Most of them have all started too late,
and they've got a real uphill battle.
And I think the thing that we least
have to consider in Charlottesville
is that we have a time advantage,
and the time is now if we're going to do something.
Another five years, I think, probably is too late.
10 years is certainly too late.
Now that's not going to say that the central city is going
to decay in that period of time, but it's
going to be a less attractive place to shop.
And if it's a less attractive place to shop and do business,
it's going to be a less attractive place to live.
And a vital, central core of the city,
the downtown retail mercantile area,
has got to have an abundance of housing to support it.
We have some housing to support it.
But if it's really going to pick up and move,
it's got to have more.
And if it begins to decay, you aren't going to have more,
you're going to have less.
So the process begins to work in reverse.
And while I'm on my soapbox this evening,
I guess I'd like to address this whole issue since I
have the floor and the mayor hasn't taken it
away from me yet.
I'd like to address this whole issue of keeping traffic
on Main Street.
I think there's a lot to be said for keeping traffic
on Main Street if you've got a wide enough Main Street.
Main Street in Charlottesville is 66 feet wide in most places.
If you allow two lanes of moving traffic, which is 24 feet,
to remain on Main Street-- and it wouldn't seem to make much
sense to leave less than that--
then what you've got left is just a widened sidewalk.
And you could plant a few trees in that widened
portion of the sidewalk.
Would been doing, in effect, is taking the parking off.
The street's too narrow to make it serpentine,
so you just have to have a straight two-lane street
down the middle.
But that would allow cars to travel by.
We could have some trees planted in the area where people now
park.
I suppose you could do a few other little fancy things.
My judgment is that that's not going
to change things very much in terms of the average shopper.
He's going to say, those are nice trees you have down there,
but my shopping experience is not any better
than it was because I've got to fight all those cars that
are constantly moving down the middle of Main Street.
I may have a little more sidewalk
to walk on and negotiate, but it's still just as much trouble
to get from one side of the street
as it is to the other side because I've
got to fight the traffic.
If we're to leave the side streets open also,
then we really haven't done anything
but plant a few trees downtown.
And I think maybe we can do that and leave the parking
on for certainly a lot less money than we're proposing.
And I would venture to say that nobody would come downtown
to shop just because of those few trees
that you planted along the sidewalk area,
not any more than will today.
Another problem with leaving the traffic on Main Street
is even though you say you got to keep moving, you can't stop,
there's always going to be somebody who wants
to stop to let somebody off.
So what happens?
They back traffic up because there isn't anyplace else
to go.
Somebody wants to unload something.
I'll only be a minute.
Well, he's gone 15 minutes.
One whole lane of traffic is backed up all the way
because there's no place to park your car
because both lanes of traffic are for moving traffic.
And so this is going to cause people
to have a lot of problems.
There's no place to park on Main Street
if you convert to a semi-mall and leave the traffic on.
There's no place to park like there is today.
So you gotta keep moving.
And where is your movement going to get you to?
You're going to take the parking off the side streets.
It's not going to get you to any parking on the side streets.
It's going to get you to identically the same parking
spaces that we propose to get you to
under this particular project.
Now maybe the movement of cars down Main Street
psychologically does something.
I don't know.
Certainly you don't want people driving down
through there who are just driving through
and don't have any business downtown,
they're just driving through to get someplace else,
because all they're going to do is clutter
and clog up your traffic arteries,
so that it seems to me that if you leave traffic
on Main Street in Charlottesville
because it is so narrow, and you try
to dress it up some way with a few trees and a few flower
pots, that you really are not going
to have made a significant enough impact on the shopper
that he or she is going to come down
here to shop any more than he or she is today.
The plazas are gone.
The nice, quiet areas where someone can sit down and rest
for awhile are not going to be possible under that
kind of a proposal.
The whole idea behind this mall is
to turn the downtown shopping area over to the pedestrian
so that people can walk freely back and forth
and feel a sense of space, of being able to move about.
Now if we keep the cars on Main Street,
that's going to be destroyed.
And I don't think whatever greenery
would be added to it would be significant enough.
This is one thing that has concerned me
throughout this whole project, and that was, are we
putting enough ingenuity, imagination, and money into it
to make enough of an impact that people are going
to want to come downtown to shop and to do business
because if we aren't, then we're probably wasting the money
that we're proposing to spend.
I think that if we had a project for a million and a half
dollars which would allow us to do nothing
but mall a main street and for side streets,
that that probably would not make
a significant enough impact.
I think if you don't make that impact, that you're wasting
what money you do spend.
And I've come to believe that $2.5 million
is probably about the minimum we can spend on this project
and make that have an impact.
Certainly the more money you had, the more of an impact
you could make.
But what what's at stake is not anybody's individual downtown
business.
What's at stake is the whole downtown
as it relates to the total community.
It's a vital part of this community.
And if it goes downhill, a lot of the other sections
of Charlottesville surrounding it
are going to go downhill also.
It isn't going to happen tomorrow,
but that's what we're here, and that's
what city government is about, and that's
what city government should be about,
and that's to plan ahead so that we don't constantly
meet crises.
We spend too much of our time right now, I think, as firemen.
All we do is go around putting out fires
that have already started.
This is one area in which we're trying to take
some preventive measures.
And that is we're trying to do something now
so a lot of things a lot worse won't happen sometime
in the future.
Now there's nobody that will guarantee that this project is
going to be 100% successful.
I don't think anybody would wager that.
I don't think anybody would write you an insurance
policy to guarantee that.
But based on the evidence in other cities, cities
that have been successful and cities that have not
been successful with malls, we think that at this time,
the project that has been presented to city council
is a project that will allow the downtown business
area to remain a vital part of the community
and will allow it to function in such a way
as it will not be subject to decay.
And we think that ultimately, if the plan
that the [INAUDIBLE] people have given to us
is carried out, that we go beyond just downtown,
we begin to preserve the areas around it,
that it will enhance the downtown area
over a period of years.
I think the alternative is reasonably frightening enough
that the amount of money which is proposed to be spent here
is a very small sum of money.
When we look at the amount of local dollars
that went into the clearing of Vinegar Hill
and the impact that has had on the community in the last 10
years, $2.5 million is a very small amount
of money to spend for such a vital part of the community.
There may be other sections of the community, other business
areas of the community that will need this same sort
of treatment in 10 or 15 years.
I think city government has got to be prepared
to move into those areas at such time
as is necessary so that those business and shopping
areas do not decay also.
It just so happens that the subject of decay,
in my opinion, at the present time, is downtown.
Thank you.
SPEAKER 1: Mr. Hendricks, that was,
while not short, an extremely able exposition,
I think, of the desirability of developing
a mall in the downtown area.
It's hard to add anything to that.
I would like to say that an extension of what
Mr. Hendricks said with regard to preventing decay, frankly,
is in terms of money relative to the needs of the community
for projects of all sorts, money that is needed to be spent
in other areas of the city.
It seems to me that if this investment is made
and it has the results that we think it will have,
even though we don't know, it will
have the effect of producing a lot more tax
monies and a lot more revenues through sales
taxes, real estate taxes, and whatever down the road,
which will be available for the city
to use for many other projects, so that it
seems to me for the people as a whole, which is what I believe,
Mr. Crispin, you were addressing your remarks to,
the city as a whole, this can be a very sound investment.
Yes, sir.
MR. WHITELEY: Mr. Mayor, my name is [? Grice ?] Whiteley.
And while Mr. Hendricks was making his comments,
I was doing some figuring.
And I'd like to make a couple of remarks concerning
the concern in the past that's been expressed both privately
and publicly with so-called cost factors
and the spending of money.
And when I total up, in very round figures, the money
that I don't consider being spent as a cost,
but I consider an investment, we're
coming up to $25.5 million just on the projects
that were mentioned tonight.
Now as the director of Downtown Charlottesville, Inc.,
I had the pleasure of putting together
an anniversary package.
And we'd start looking behind us in the last 10 years
to find out, well, what kind of ground
have we covered since our organization was formed?
And we were staggered at the amount
of funds that had been invested physically, visibly,
in the improvements that are going on in downtown
Charlottesville today.
Now the public funds that the city has invested in the city
hall here, in the parking garage, in the mall,
amounts to about $5.5 million.
Now in addition to that, government funds,
which is probably an open-ended kind of investment with
regards to the Vinegar Hill redevelopment program
and the Garrett Street renewal, that
can go any number of millions of dollars.
But I say just, say, $6 million at the very most modest type
of improvements there.
And then surprisingly, that's $11,500,000 there.
But surprisingly, private funds so far
have been invested in what we've seen, either right
on the horizon, publicly acknowledged,
like, for example, the Hilton Hotel.
But other developments, some $14 million have been invested.
And we're talking about an investment, a very, very
determined financial commitment to a very defined
central business district.
Now this is not including the untold millions
of dollars that have been invested
to improve access, which Mr. Hendricks so
eloquently elaborated on.
But years ago, it was accepted that this kind
of a problem, this access to downtown Charlottesville,
was something that was not within our control.
We had to go outside to state agencies
to accomplish our aims there, so we
were captive in that respect.
Now as far as the results that I would hope that we
could get if we do all this--
and I think it was eloquently put that it's not guaranteed.
There is nothing in this world that's guaranteed.
But I think you can hope, and I think
you can expect, to number one, upgrade the merchandise
that you will have to provide for the clients,
for your customer.
I think you're going to have to upgrade the merchandise.
You're going to upgrade the merchandise,
and thereby upgrade the kind of customer that you have,
and you're going to upgrade the entire image of the community
and that store.
Now I think this is what we have to look forward to,
and this is the experience factors
that we've seen in studying other communities.
We've got successful stores on Main Street
and in the central business district,
and we have unsuccessful ones.
We've got 136 members, approximately,
of downtown Charlottesville in the central business district,
and that doesn't represent 50%, maybe 40%,
of all the merchants.
We have some people who I know are not financially successful.
Now unfortunately, they are going to have to do something.
And it might be that they cannot live here,
they cannot continue to exist in this district,
in the central business district.
But I think this is unfortunate, but this is something
that everyone is aware of.
And we're not trying to drive people,
or the plan is not designed to drive businessmen out
of their livelihood or out of this area.
But I think when you consider the impact of $25 million
or $30 million or $10 million into improving
the shopping of the city of Charlottesville,
we're going to be seeing a tremendously greater marketing
area improve.
For years there's been a standoff on--
well, as a private businessman, well, we'll
do something if the city does something, and the city says,
well, we'll do something if the private sector does something.
Well, the private funds have matched
the city funds in investment so far when these round figures,
about $14 million each.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you, Mr. [? Whiteley. ?] Anyone else?
MARY WILLIAMS: First I want to say
that I'm Mary Williams, president
of downtown Charlottesville.
And Mr. Hendricks, that was quite eloquent speech
you had there.
In fact, when Mr. Hendrix came to Charlottesville,
this is pretty much what we talked about his first month
here, the possibilities of Charlottesville,
the beautiful country that we have,
and that it was a crime to sit and talk and let
Charlottesville deteriorate.
I know, and I am firmly convinced,
and I have faith in downtown Charlottesville.
I have the faith that if we do create a new environment
downtown, that it's going to create
an environment all around us.
Now I have lived downtown.
At present, I don't live down here,
but I lived downtown for 14 years.