NARRATOR: Now live from City Hall in Charlottesville,
the Jefferson Cable Corporation presents
this evening's regular meeting of the Charlottesville City
Council.
This program is brought to you bi-weekly on Community Cable 10
on Council's regular meeting night,
as another community service feature of Community Cable 10.
And now, this evening's meeting of the Charlottesville City
Council.
COUNCILMAN: But is the chair going
to permit public discussion tonight?
Because if so, then I would like to save my questions
and comments till after we've heard from the public.
MAYOR BARBOUR: I feel since it was not
advertised as a public hearing, neither was
the first meeting was advertised as a public hearing.
I think the public should be allowed to speak.
I will certainly ask anyone to address council
to please go to a microphone, identify yourself, and only
speak for three minutes, please.
Because there are a lot of people to speak
and each one [INAUDIBLE] and share, if you will.
Yes?
DEBORAH BRANHAM: I'm Deborah Branham,
and I have a very short statement.
And I'd be happy to comment if anybody on the council
would like to ask me.
Council seems to have--
I have written this because it makes it more succinct.
Council seems to have shielded itself with the disclaimer that
once appointed, School Board is an autonomous body
above council's reproach.
The board's request must therefore be autonomous.
Why then should council scrutinize the request?
Why not hand the board a lump sum and say, spend as you will?
It is absurd for council to say, on the one hand,
that they must analyze a particular monetary request
for an additional week to judge the propriety of the request
and still say, we must grant autonomy
to the board's judgment of educational propriety.
Only nonsense, not reason, could bridge the gap in this thought
process.
What is propriety to council?
Maybe stewardship of public funds in accordance
with public desires?
We tend to wonder.
Mr. Gilliam is right.
The buck stops here.
In observing open classroom techniques implemented
this past year, I saw slow students lost,
learning slowed down, and the child
who is a discipline problem further aggravated.
And if you do not trust my observations, other teachers
and parents opinions in favor of the experts,
then consider fiscal responsibility.
In light of a few facts, Charlottesville schools
represent gross fiscal irresponsibility.
We may tear down walls that have been torn down
in many other places only to be resurrected.
In which case, how much money could we very likely
be talking about tonight?
Three empty schools in the heart of Charlottesville
will be in existence next year.
In their emptiness, they represent waste.
In any projected renovation, they
represent money, much money.
Meanwhile, a large and expensive new building awaits occupation.
Salaried teachers who are highly antagonistic to the programs
they teach under are not so efficient as they should be,
and an increasing disproportion between instructional and non
instructional percentage of the budget is going on each year.
Why should we have carpeting in the open classrooms,
for instance?
According to the administration, it
is a highly productive learning environment.
I would suggest the carpeting is to buffer
severe noise of what is too often an indoor playground.
I suggest there is criteria for propriety in a democracy--
the will of the people focused in a cooperative effort.
If council seeks refuge in the letter of the law,
they cannot escape the spirit.
You cannot retreat into illogic and vote yes tonight without
affixing your approval to fiscal irresponsibility and turning
a deaf ear to the public.
Thank you.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Someone else?
Yes, sir?
C.E. ANDERSON: My name is C.E. Anderson.
I think at the last council meeting,
the question came up about this appropriation.
And the way I understand it was left
that consideration would be given
to an expenditure of about $20,000.
Now I didn't stay until the end of the meeting.
And now, I notice that it's an amount of $90,000.
I have attended several council meetings with,
and I have listened to this school board
make its presentation, and I would guess about at least four
or five times.
It's always an emergency situation, always
an emergency situation.
I talked to two councilmen about this before,
and they sort of agreed with me.
Why is it that we have to spend this money now, for example?
You're already about $2 million over the high school budget.
Why is this money coming from?
I think you've gone down and have
the reputation of being the highest spending council
and school board there is in the country.
And I think the per capita cost to the citizens
of Charlottesville today, for the operation of the city,
is one of the highest in the state of Virginia.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank you, sir.
Anyone else?
Mr. Gilliam?
I believe you're next.
COUNCILMAN GILLIAM: Mr. Mayor, I'd
like to make a motion that we defer action on this request
until such time as the report of the task force that
has been appointed by the schools
to investigate and report on disciplinary matters
has been complete.
Mr. Mayor, I've been on vacation at the beach.
I came back from vacation early in order
to spend some time yesterday and today talking
to people about this.
And I think that some people have gotten the impression
that the only people who are concerned
about the problems of discipline, the problems which
may exist in our school system, are the people who
are against everything.
People who think that this council is
the worst thing that's ever happened, or this school board
is the worst thing that's ever happened.
So I made a particular effort to talk yesterday
and last night and today with people who I think
are generally regarded as progressive, liberal thinkers
in the community.
And I talked with teachers.
I talked with parents.
I guess I talked with more teachers
than I did with parents.
And the word that I got was pretty close to unanimous.
In fact, I don't know of anybody who
gave me any different impression than what I'm about to relate.
That is that we do have a discipline
problem in the schools.
It's a discipline problem of some moment.
It's a discipline problem which, if allowed to get worse,
will become the most nasty sort of problem.
There will be, I think, racial overtones to it.
And I think this is a problem that all of us, whether we're
involved in the school system or involved
with the community as a whole, have
to be very concerned about, have to direct a lot of attention
to.
Every person, every teacher, every parent
that I talked with thought that the problem would
be made much worse if we went, at this time,
into an open classroom situation.
Now I think that the comments that many people made to me
were made, admittedly, because they're
a little bit afraid of the unknown.
Since they have not had experience
with the open classroom situation,
they really don't know all there is to know about it.
And they're afraid of it.
And this is understandable.
I think that most all of us have some fear of the unknown.
But I think what's important in this context is
that large numbers of people, and not the people who
are against what this council or what this school board is
trying to do, but some of the best friends that all of us
have in this city, people whose concerns are very much with us,
believe, rightly or wrongly, that moving away
from the closed classroom situation to the open classroom
situation, at this particular time,
will make the discipline problem much worse.
Now one parent, or one couple, said to me
that they believe that their child would survive.
But I think that the educational system
has to offer an awful lot more than survival.
I think it has to offer opportunity
to the student who has the get up and go,
who is a self starter, to move ahead at a quicker pace.
And I think that most people feel
that this is one of the strong points of the open classroom.
The concern that was voiced most often
was that the mediocre student, the average student,
the disadvantaged student, who is not a self starter,
and who desperately needs to be in a more structured
environment than these people believe the open classroom will
offer, that those will be the ones to suffer.
They believe that children who, or young people who
don't have enough to do in a structured sense,
will wander around pinching people or hitting people
being playful.
Not because they're bad kids, but just because they don't
have enough to keep them busy.
The concern that I've heard is that the open classroom
will result in more sort of unstructured time for students.
Now I've heard it said--
certainly the very persuasive argument was made last week--
that whether or not to move to an open classroom situation
lies within the sole province of the school board.
And that if we attempt to interfere with their decision
to take this step then we are treading on their turf.
Well, I think that under our city charter,
and under the system of government that we have here,
that there are several instances where
the city council appoints.
The people don't elect, the council
appoints people whom we believe to have
expertise and good judgment in certain areas.
Certainly the planning commission is one area.
The planning commission has a great deal of discretion
over many matters.
But when it comes to the final decision on rezoning,
only this council can make it.
Now on any matters, the deal with the expenditures of money,
starting a new program that requires
the expenditure of money, this council has the final decision.
And while we can accept--
and I think 99 times out of 100 do--
with great thanks, the expertise and the efforts of these groups
that are professional, and are qualified,
we don't always have to agree.
And the reason we have an elected council
is so we can have a body that hopefully
is the most responsive to the will of the people.
I judge the will of the people, based
on those that I've talked with, to be very, very, very
much against this.
Now I have read this material.
I have not frankly had the opportunity
to read the other material mentioned in the bibliography.
And it may very well be that if I
had had a greater amount of time to read this,
I would have come to a different conclusion.
But I think that since so many parents
are convinced that this will make the discipline
problem worse--
and since a discipline force has been appointed--
I think it would make us look very ridiculous, even more
ridiculous than we sometimes otherwise look
in many people's eyes, if we went ahead and passed it.
And if this discipline task force came in and said,
we're completely against an open classroom.
We believe the closed classroom is what we
need at this particular time.
I think with that possibility staring us right in the face
that we would be bordering on the irresponsible to commit
nearly $100,000 of the taxpayers' money to something
that an awful lot of our citizens have the gravest sort
of recommendations about.
Now I realize that the effect of this
could be to delay the postponement of this program
for as much as a year.
Well, since so many people--
good, smart people, people who are involved in education,
teachers, are against this, it looks to me
as if a lot of people need to be sold or persuaded.
More facts need to be brought out.
And I think that a delay--
not a death knell for this program, but just a delay--
would give all of us the opportunity
to gain greater knowledge and greater insight
into what the implications of this program are.
So again, realizing full well that we
are talking about a delay perhaps of as much as a
year in the ability to implement this program
at Walker and Beaufort.
I nonetheless do make a motion and hope
that somebody will be old enough to second it, defer action
on this matter until after this discipline task
force report is in.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank you, Mr. Gilliam.
That's a second?
COUNCILMAN FIFE: Mr. Mayor, I would like
to second Mr. Gilliam's motion.
I do so with, I guess, a lot of the same feelings that Mr.
Gilliam has already expressed.
I don't know that I have heard or talked to as many people
as Mr. Gilliam has.
I have heard from a number of people--
teachers-- teachers not in our system, but in other systems.
And parents bringing out specific problems,
discussing the matter in general.
I have so far not heard, I guess, not one person
who seemed to be in favor.
And I don't mean that I have kept any tally sheet based
on this, because I recognize that those people who
are against it perhaps feel that the city council is
the only place that they can act.
Those who are in favor of it perhaps
think that the program is going to go ahead and be implemented
anyway.
And therefore, they do not have to speak.
They may have the feeling that the council, in originally
authorizing architects' fees, in fact
has already indicated that it was in favor of this program.
I must say that it's with a great deal of hesitancy
that I as a councilman seem to be speaking to a matter
that we may well have authorized our school board to take action
on.
I do find, though, that in conversations that I have had,
that there has been, as far as I can tell,
very little contact between the school board
and the public with regard to this matter.
It seems to me that, in addition to doing what
Mr. Gilliam has suggested--
waiting for this committee or commission task
force discipline to come in with its report,
that the school boards should, by the council,
be urged to have a hearing.
It may be that no one will turn out.
It may be that the same people that for some reason
are willing to speak to the council
but will not go to the school board.
Maybe the same situation will take place.
I think if they don't show up at such a hearing,
then maybe that's an answer in itself.
Like Mr. Gilliam, though, I've heard all kinds of questions
raised about this system.
I had not realized that I would read the report that
was given to us.
I did not myself try to make any investigation of this.
But I did get calls.
And I got calls from people who, as Mr. Gilliam said,
I do not feel unnecessarily people
that are opposed to all change.
But people who gave me some information with
regard to this having been tried in other areas.
I realize that the council and the school board
have a problem.
If we appoint the school board to carry these things out,
and the school board studies very carefully
its authorized agents, its administration
brings in all kinds of reports and recommends certain things,
and then the council in a sense overlooks this and perhaps
has to take another action.
I don't feel, really, that we're taking another action.
I feel that, if we do this, what we're asking
is for the school board to take a couple of more steps
to assure that there is a great amount of support
for this program.
Because after all, the school system
has got to have the support of the public.
That the support will be there, in a further assurance
that the discipline problem will not be made worse.
No one can be sure.
I realize that.
I think the discipline problem has come forth now to us
in such a way that we recognize it's
one of the severest problems that the school system has.
We've all got to figure out some way to help some.
Of course, the school board is the main one
that has to come up with the program.
So it's-- I have to say, with a lot of thinking during
the week, and a lot of going back and forth in my own mind
as to which way I was going to vote.
I have to--
I feel called upon to second Mr. Gilliam's motion
that this be postponed them until after two actions,
if Mr. Gilliam would concur, until after a hearing
or hearings be held.
And this has to do with this change itself.
And after the Commission on discipline or task force--
I forget what the proper title is--
brings in its report.
COUNCILMAN VAN YAHRES: Mr. Mayor, I too
have received numerous phone calls.
In fact, I think I have gotten more phone
calls on this issue of late than any other that I can recall,
from numerous teachers, parents, many concerned citizens.
And I too had the same results as Mr. Fife and Mr. Gilliam.
Unanimous, I must say, disapproval
of the open classroom concept.
However I look at this request by the school board
to initiate this particular program as an option
to a teaching program in our school system.
I hope I am right in interpreting the request
to be just a tool to be used to educate our children.
It will not necessarily be the program, the concept,
or Charlottesville schools in the future.
I hope I have made a proper interpretation.
Because in that light, it makes a difference in my vote.
I sympathize with Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Fife
about concerning the request for us
to delay action until the hearings are over.
But I also must view this hearing
that will be going on this summer,
concerning the discipline question and the open classroom
concept, that the discipline question is
only one factor in the open classroom teaching method.
I don't think the open classroom situation can rise or fall
on one factor.
It has to be a factor, I grant that.
But I don't think it can be the overwhelming factor.
It has to be judged in the total context of what
the open classroom situation can do for the total school system.
Now if it doesn't meet the demands in other areas,
then it should be abandoned.
But I don't think we should condemn
a system because it doesn't meet totally one factor.
I hope, as the school board has mentioned to us,
has told us previously, that the open classroom
situation does reduce the problem in the discipline area.
I am banking on their request for funds to do
this thing, that it will work.
And I would hope that it does work.
As far as our being the court of last resort with this request,
as the councilmen had mentioned that we are--
we only operate in the two areas with the school board.
One, the appointment.
And two, the budget.
And this is a budget request for a particular program.
The way I view it is that the school board comes
to us with a program and requests
to initiate that program with a request of funds.
We have to judge this request from the funding standpoint
as to how it fits into the total budget and other priorities we
have, demands on that budget.
In view of that, we have to take the school board's request
in more than just an advisory capacity.
They have supposedly searched this question out completely.
They have come to the conclusion that this is the way to go.
We rely on their judgment for the program.
And we have to judge it on the merit of the budget itself.
That is where we have to judge it.
Can we afford it?
Can we put this up against other priorities
and say yes to the request, or no,
it does not fit into our total concept of the budget?
In view of that, I have come to the conclusion
that we should grant this request, to try it out.
I think we have to listen to the school board in their request.
They are assuring us that this is a program that
must be tried, that this will be a better
system in Charlottesville by us starting and trying
this method.
This will be a teaching tool, a way
of handling certain problems.
It is not a panacea.
It will not be the system of the future necessarily.
So in view of that, I would vote against the motion
on the floor.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Ms. Rinehart.
COUNCILWOMAN RINEHART: My turn now.
Well, it's pretty apparent that when
the initial request for the architect's fees
were presented to us, we should have asked a lot more questions
at that time.
It seems we always kind of get into the middle of something
and grant one request and then right in the middle,
a lot of other questions are asked that really should have
been asked at the beginning.
We should have asked about the five-year plan.
And I think we certainly ought to ask all those questions now.
Not necessarily tonight, but I mean in the next few weeks,
about the five-year plan that Dr. Elena has set forth.
I think we ought to understand it better.
It seems that people call the person on city council
they probably feel best represents their viewpoint.
So I have had some people to call me
who were more positive about the open concept,
because I guess they felt from my remarks
last week that I probably felt a little bit better about it.
But I have had a good many negative calls, too.
There were plenty of people who were negative.
And most of the negativism was based on fear.
Again, fear of the unknown.
They didn't know what this was going to be.
Just don't think so.
But I think that that fear has become mixed up
with the whole problem of discipline.
There again, I agree wholeheartedly
with everything that has been said.
Discipline is a great problem.
We must deal with it right now.
And I think that the school board
has got to be in touch with parents
and teachers a great deal.
Many people said they had talked to the school administration
for not getting the response they wanted.
People who were against open plans that were not
getting the response they wanted from the school administration
were now calling city council.
And I said, well, have you talked
to the school board at all?
And they said no.
So I suggested to everyone to put their thoughts in writing
and send them to members of the school board.
And I hope that--
most of these people called up Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
So I hope that you will be getting some thoughts put down
on paper.
I believe that the school board really
ought to get some input from a lot of these negative people,
and perhaps the positive people too
will come forward and state why they are positively for this.
One teacher asked the question-- and this is a new angle.
Should this $90,000 be spent on remodeling of schools?
Or should it be spent on more teachers?
She felt strongly that $90,000 for more teachers,
to help the children who really needed it,
would be much more constructive and reorganizing two schools.
As usual, what seems to be a lack of communication,
as I mentioned, between the public
at large and the school board.
And I trust that there will be a little more communication here
in the next week or two,
I feel that the school board has gone into this.
I do want to hear more about the five-year capital expenditure
estimate and how that capital expenditure will
be made, exactly what the aims are
and how they will be accomplished.
I want teachers, students, parents, the State Department
of Education also in on it.
It was stated here by Mr. Mitchell
last week in his remarks.
But I'll tell you something that really disturbed me.
This disturbed me very much.
I read very carefully the report on learning and open space.
And first of all, on the first page, it says,
I have given two definitions.
And I searched the report over, and I have yet
to know who the "I" is who was speaking or writing
this report.
There is no name on this report.
And I have always based my judgments
on who said what to me.
In a community, you know somebody a long time ago,
and you know what their judgment is.
And I have no idea who wrote this report.
There were a lot of "I" and "my" in here,
and I still don't know this report was obviously gotten up
by one person, and I'd like to know who really wrote it
so that I could judge it.
The second thing that disturbed--
this really disturbed me, that all of these things which are
listed as advantages and disadvantages in the open space
concept are from a survey of literature, not--
and I thought from last week from our discussion that this
really--
and I hope that this an incorrect impression
I'm getting tonight.
That this was a decision based on your personal experience
in Charlottesville, what you had found out
to be really good about open space.
But it's all on how many people have tried it,
how many communities have tried it,
and a survey of literature and research and reports.
It's all words and reports, written words.
I wonder if any of the school board
or any of the administration have visited these schools
and seen them in action.
At the last paragraph, it says it should
be noted that six schools--
Greenbrier, Clark, Venable, Jackson [INAUDIBLE],,
Jefferson and Beaufort--
used some form of open space in the teaching program
during the 1973-74 school year.
And I feel that should have been an opening paragraph.
And frankly, I would like to have
heard what your thoughts were and what
your practical experience in Charlottesville was.
That would have a lot more weight with me
than all these reports and surveys of literature.
I hate to say this, but I do think this is something
that ought to be brought up.
Because frankly, I think we should know more
about what a practical experience has been here.
I assume that it has been good, or you would not
be recommending it.
I think that probably--
the report does not really indicate
what your true thinking is.
But frankly, your word and your experience
carries more weight with me than a survey of literature.
And I plan to vote, however, against Mr. Gilliam's motion.
Because I really do feel that the school board
and the administration have taken
the practical considerations into their decision.
But I do feel, as the last point,
that when we learn about this five-year plan,
that the public, parents, teachers,
the school board must all discuss an open discussion,
so that the community knows about it.
If we do it, the vote tonight gives you the money to do this.
And if you decide to go ahead and use this money
to remodel the schools, that we watch this for a year.
The administration, school board, public
watch this open class for a year, open class concept,
and see how it's working.
End of the year, I think we ought
to talk about it again and see whether we want to continue it.
I do think the parents should be very much involved in it.
WOMAN: A question relevant to Ms. Rinehart's points.
MAYOR BARBOUR: If I give you a chance,
then I have to open it up to the whole public
for another public hearing.
I believe I gave the public a chance.
And I believe we're before council now.
I would like to ask Mrs. Rinehart,
did you want an answer from the school board
administration on the "I's" that you wanted to know?
Did you want an answer to that?
COUNCILWOMAN RINEHART: No, I am assuming that they really
did make their judgment more on practical experience
than this report indicates.
You know, I just--
I really feel like-- but they didn't put their experience
down in writing.
Now perhaps Dr. Elena might just speak to that point.
Perhaps I might like just a brief answer.
SCHOOL BOARD REP: Pleased to do it, and very briefly.
The report was prepared within 48 hours of the time
we appeared before council on the request
of another party who felt that council might like
to have a brief overview of the advantages, the disadvantages
of open space throughout the United States.
The report is clearly a staff report.
Since it was put together by separate individuals,
there was a couple of oversights,
namely one, the "I" that appears from time to time
that represents one staff member's contribution
to that report.
But the report was based on broad experience, coupled
with the experience that we have had in Charlottesville.
I personally, for nearly two decades,
have traveled more than a quarter of a million miles
a year.
I have seen, firsthand, open space in the entire state
of California, in the entire state of North Dakota,
in Cherry Creek, Colorado, in a great many places
in the Commonwealth of Virginia.
So that, yes, Miss Rinehart.
It is based on a substantial amount of experience,
in addition to research reports of places
that we were not able to visit.
COUNCILWOMAN RINEHART: [INAUDIBLE] response.
Thank you, Dr. Elena.
I assumed that from conversations I've had.
But please, in making future reports,
I would be delighted to have your opinion as well
as the opinion, the personal opinion,
of your own staff members.
And I do want to hear your practical experience here
in Charlottesville.
SCHOOL BOARD REP: I concur.
MAYOR BARBOUR: I will vote against Mr. Gilliam's motion.
[INAUDIBLE] sincere like to say that I
hope that the community will work with the school board.
I believe that each councilor have expressed
the concern about discipline within the community,
from the teachers and from the parents.
So I believe the school board, as the one who
is running the schools, are trying to also-- are
concerned with this problem.
So they are trying to do what they think best
to help control this problem.
So I would certainly hope that the community, the teachers
and the parents will work with the school board
in trying to clean up the problem that everyone
have complained about.
If there is no more discussion, we
are ready to vote Mr. Gilliam's motion.
Mr. Gilliam's motion was to defer the funds for the schools
for two weeks [INAUDIBLE].
COUNCILMAN GILLIAM: Until after the task
force report was complete.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Ready, vote.
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMAN FIFE: I seem to be disconnected.
Let me try this one.
COUNCILWOMAN RINEHART: Are you disconnected?
COUNCILMAN FIFE: Oh yeah, I'm sorry.
I was voting over here.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
MAYOR BARBOUR: Now we'll have the roll call vote, Mr. Rush.
MR. RUSH: Mr. Barbour?
MAYOR BARBOUR: Aye.
MR. RUSH: Fife?
COUNCILMAN FIFE: No.
MR. RUSH: Gilliam?
COUNCILMAN GILLIAM: No.
MR. RUSH: Ms. Rinehart?
COUNCILWOMAN RINEHART: Aye.
MR. RUSH: Mr. Van Yahres?
COUNCILMAN VAN YAHRES: Aye.
MAYOR BARBOUR: I would like to stop at this point
before anyone starts leaving to say,
it's good to see so many here tonight.
And I certainly hope that you come back again when
there isn't a real controversial issue that makes you come out.
Come because the council meetings are your meetings.
The money we spend is your money.
So we certainly ask all of you, please come again.
Just every Monday night all about, we are here.
Appointment, [INAUDIBLE] school board.
Mr. Gilliam?
COUNCILMAN GILLIAM: I'd like to nominate
to serve an additional term, Mr. Mayor, the honorable
and the Reverend Henry Mitchell.
As I remarked last week, I don't think
there's any appointed public servant
in the city of Charlottesville who's
put as much into his job in the way of time, intelligence,
energy, interest as Reverend Mitchell has, despite the fact
that I seem to disagree with him from time to time
on specific issues, I do have a great deal of admiration
for what he's done.
And in nominating him for another term,
I'm also complimenting him on his--
and thanking him for his-- past service to the community.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Any other nomination?
Have two seats up.
So with tonight, we seem to have--
we appoint one school board member, and I'll assume--
I hope that council will be ready to make
the other appointment in the next couple weeks or so.
Ready, vote.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Welcome back, Robert Mitchum.
[INAUDIBLE]
COUNCILWOMAN RINEHART: Welcome back?
[INAUDIBLE]
[LAUGHTER]
MR. GETTY: Mr. Mayor?
MAYOR BARBOUR: Mr. Getty?
MR. GETTY: I noticed that Mr. Harry
Tenney, who was not standing for reappointment, is here.
And I think that everything that can
be said about Mr. Mitchell in terms
of the thanks of the council and of the community
for his past service goes for Mr. Tenney as well.
I think that Mr. Tenney has brought not only
a degree of confidence and experience, insight,
but also a very keen sense of humor
to the activities of the school board,
and I'm sure that his contributions will be missed.
But I do feel that he deserves the thanks of the council
and of the city of Charlottesville for his service
over the past several years.
COUNCILMAN BARBOUR: I would like to say thank you, Mr. Tenney,
and also from the council.
And I think you might have made a smart decision.
[LAUGHTER]
This is a public hearing on a special assessment
of district, downtown mall.
I will ask anyone who is addressing council,
please limit your remarks to three minutes.
There are many to speak, and we don't
want to bore anyone with someone speaking for 15 minutes
to a half an hour.
Mr. Hendrix?
MR. HENDRIX: Proposed public hearing tonight
before city council is to consider proposed improvements
to that portion of Main Street in the city of Charlottesville
line between the intersection of West Main Street and Preston
Avenue on the west, and East Main Street and 7th Street
NE on the east, and to the southern portion, the block
of 2nd Street Northeast line between Main Street and Market
Street.
And the proposed creation of a special assessment district
comprising all parcels of real estate,
abutting said portion of Main Street and 2nd Street,
within which taxes or assessments would be levied
upon such property owners pursuant to section 15-1--
15.1-239 of the code of Virginia as amended.
The proposed improvements include, but are not
limited to, the replacement of sidewalks and street pavement,
the special paving materials, the replacement and expansion
of facilities for storm water drainage,
and the installation of lighting, benches,
waste receptacles and other street furniture, plannings,
and other permanent amenities.
The area that we're considering tonight--
shown on this is a map of Main Street, [INAUDIBLE]..
At this particular point, the intersection
of Preston Avenue and Main Street
runs down Main Street to 7th Street
at this particular point.
That's the location of a special assessment district.
These two maps over top, this is of Market Street,
which indicates the new traffic flows and the parking.
The red indicates where there will
be parking on Market Street.
Down here is Water Street.
The red indicates where parking will
be allowed on Water Street with the new traffic flow.
The interim parking plan is shown on the map to your right.
The plans for the mall themselves, which details
the exact location of all facilities on the mall
are located in these drawings in front of you.
Mr. Mayor, I think at this point,
you may want to turn it over to the public
to share their comments.
MAYOR BARBOUR: I would like to start out
by asking [INAUDIBLE] anyone who would like to speak
[INAUDIBLE].
C.H. WILLIAMS JR: Mayor?
MAYOR BARBOUR: Yes, sir.
C.H. WILLIAMS JR: My name is C.H. Williams Junior.
I would like to speak in favor of the mall concept,
both as a property owner and as a merchant.
As a property owner, we are ready to accept
the assessment as determined, and pay our fair share as
determined by city council.
As a merchant, we are looking enthusiastically forward
to the future and like to think of the mall concept
as a catalyst, not as a finished product.
We'd like to think of it as a catalyst for improved
parking in the downtown area, for improved access
to the downtown area, for encouragement to developers
who develop high rise apartments and condominiums who will bring
back people living in the downtown area,
to encourage new businesses to come to the downtown area,
and lastly, the catalyst to encourage merchants
and businessmen who are now in the downtown area
to further improve the exteriors and the interiors.
As a matter of record, I would like
to say that CH Williams Incorporated is now
nearing the completion of a major renovation
program of that building at 212 East Main
Street, in which we have spent in excess of $200,000.
I think it's highly doubtful that we
would have gone to this expense if we had not
had the confidence that the future
of downtown Charlottesville was going
to be a progressive one and a viable one
and that we could be part of a growing business community.
I urge city council to proceed as fast as feasible
with the mall concept as previously outlined.
Thank you.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Anyone else want to speak?
MR. ANDY CAMPBELL: Yes.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Yes, sir.
MR. ANDY CAMPBELL: Thank you for the time.
My name is Andy Campbell.
I'm president of a local corporation operating
as retail merchants in the downtown area, also a property
owner.
I would like go on record, as Mr. Williams said,
100% in favor of the mall concept done
in the proper manner, as I have stated before.
Naturally, our corporation is interested,
as I've had many people tell me, you
think all you're going to do is help yourself.
I don't believe that.
I think it's a community development that
can't help but bring in more revenue, and in the long run,
not next year or the year after, but possibly
in the long run, with more businesses, larger
businesses, more downtown housing, more downtown people
will certainly help the community as a whole in the tax
problem.
Now one other remark is that I repeat myself.
I want to be perfectly clear that we are 100% in favor
of the downtown mall.
And the sooner it gets started, the quicker we can get going.
Thank you.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Yes, sir.
MR. CHANNING DANIEL: I'm Channing Daniel, this time
speaking not as President of the Chamber of Commerce
but as a Vice President of a National Bank and Trust
Company.
Although the question of the mall
has not been approved or disproved
by the board of directors of National Bank,
I speak for Harvey Dabney, myself, and the entire bank
management team in favor of proceeding as planned.
The council approved $1.5 million,
and it was proposed that $500,000 be raised
as a special tax assessment.
We believe that the rebirth of the downtown core area
is essential to the well-being of not just
downtown but our entire area.
Management of National Bank, which
is the owner of the entire north side of the block between 1st
and 2nd streets, urges council to proceed with the mall
and respectfully requests their support of all downtown
merchants.
We can make it successful by working together.
Thank you.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank You.
Yes, sir?
MR. MYRON TREMAINE: My name is Myron Tremaine.
I want to speak for myself and also as a member of the Central
City Commission.
I want to allay any thoughts there
are about the commission not giving time and effort
and thought to the mall plan.
The commission has been working on this plan
for approximately two years.
It has reviewed what we felt were
the wishes of the majority of people in the downtown area
and in Charlottesville.
We have attempted to consider the access
to downtown, the parking, the traffic flow,
the aesthetics of downtown.
As Mr. Williams mentioned, we think
that the mall project is a catalyst to encourage downtown
to go on and progress.
I am firmly behind the mall plan and recommend
to council they get on with this vote, and let's get started.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Anyone else to speak?
Yes, sir.
MR. MCNAIR TILLMAN: Mr. Mayor, I'm
McNair Tillman of Tillman Incorporated.
I want to thank you for the opportunity
for the silent majority to get up and speak out tonight
in favor of the mall plan.
I speak for my own business and also for the landlords
of my business that we're very much in favor of the mall plan
going ahead, and I'm sure that the council will vote tonight
to continue.
Thank you very much.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Anyone else?
Yes, sir.
MR. HENRY MACLIN: Mr. Mayor, I'm Henry Maclin, President
of Henry Maclin and Associates, which
is a landowner in the assessment district.
We wholeheartedly support the assessment,
and we're willing to bear our share.
In addition, I am a promoter, developer
of two projects in downtown Charlottesville, one
being the Monticello block, and the other being the Hilton
hotel that we have worked diligently
on for many, many months and spent a great deal of money.
And we hope, when we step forward ahead of our time,
that we could show a little bit of leadership.
And we hope now, at this late date, that council will not
decide to reverse themselves and leave us out hanging on a limb.
We think the mall is necessary for downtown.
We are willing to do our part, as well
as many, many other developers and merchants.
And we hope the council now will brave this issue
and move forward.
Thank you.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thanks.
Yes.
MS. HELEN IDAMOYER: Helen Idamoyer,
and I speak just as a prospective consumer
for downtown.
I think-- I wholly support the downtown concept,
because I think it's important that you have a nice place
to shop.
That is, it would be extremely and very attractive.
And in this sense, I find it difficult to understand
how people oppose it.
That is, by planting trees and having these park benches,
having perhaps sidewalk cafes, this will create the atmosphere
that we want to be as the center of our whole area.
And I see that we are considering not only
just Charlottesville, but Albemarle county,
and the prospective 80,000 people that
are around in this area, not just
the people in Charlottesville.
And so I think it's very important
that we do work on this center of downtown area.
Thank you very much.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank you.
Yes, sir.
MR. FONTMAN: Mr. Mayor, I'm [INAUDIBLE]
Fontman from [INAUDIBLE].
I'm also on commission.
I'd encourage you all to act as hastily as
possible on this project.
I believe it will be a catalyst for downtown
to take off and grow and will help the community, not only
downtown but would help the community.
And I will wholeheartedly support it.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank you.
Next?
MS. MARTHA NELSON: Mr. Mayor, I'm Martha Nelson.
I speak on behalf of myself and my brother, Dr. Charles
Gleason.
We are property owners on East Main Street,
and we're 100% in favor of the mall.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank you.
Next.
MR. BERNARD HAGGERTY: My name is Bernard Haggerty
of 2414 Hillward Place.
I would like to speak in favor of the mall project.
It seems to me that, in the wisdom of council
over two years ago, you took the proper approach
with a study commission that has been
working on this for two years.
They certainly had gave all of the citizens of Charlottesville
and the surrounding areas an opportunity
to put input into their deliberations over this two
year period.
I'm in and out of town right much,
but I thought I'd followed this fairly closely.
And it seemed to me that you all had approved
this a couple of times.
And I was quite shocked that we were going to be back tonight
on this project.
Certainly, none of us can say that this is the answer.
If the problem was that simple, you
gentlemen the first week in office
would have done the thing that would move downtown and Main
Street forward.
But the problem here isn't that simple.
From the facts that I've seen relating
to the assessed valuation of the downtown property,
certainly this is a downward movement.
Now as a taxpayer in the other part of the city,
when the tax base of any part of our town drops down,
that means less tax revenue and that affects me at home.
So I think that we do need to watch
the balance in the entire community
and try and create the improvements
throughout the city to be sure that our tax base and all
the properties are at the highest possible condition,
so that the assessed valuation will generate the needed taxes.
So I speak in favor of it, not because I
think it's the answer.
It seems to me when you voted the parking
garage you made a major step as part of the total problem.
Now when the committee and commission did report to you,
I congratulate you again in taking their plan
and looking at the dollars and cents involved
and creating some economies.
You cut the cost of the plan, and I think
that this is good for the plan.
It reduced the size of it some.
It certainly reduced the price tag.
And I think this is an important step
in your overall deliberations.
Now I also, knowing that each of you as councilmen
take any vote on any subject that weighs heavy with you,
I do feel for the only two surviving members
of council as a result of certain court action
that this burden falls on our present mayor and vice mayor.
But I would like to remind you, and I feel I'm correct in this,
that although the other three members, I gather,
cannot talk or nod their head or express themselves as to how
they feel on this matter, I believe prior to the decision
that there may be a conflict of interest,
that there was expression by all members of council,
and certainly the three that cannot vote expressing
their feeling for the project and the need for it.
And so I would encourage you, in politics
there is no easy straight, smooth path.
It requires leadership and challenge.
And I would challenge the two voting members
on this project to move forward on this, as is vitally
needed to keep the tax base that's deteriorating badly
now in downtown.
Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
MAYOR BARBOUR: [INAUDIBLE]?
MR. TOM MITCHELL: Tom Mitchell of Mellon Roads.
I'm going to be short and sweet.
We at Mellon Roads would also like
to go on record as enthusiastically supporting
the mall.
MAYOR BARBOUR: Thank you.
Next.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
MAYOR BARBOUR: One second, if you will, sir.
I believe you have the floor.
MR. ALAN CLEMENTS: Mr. Mayor, my name is Alan Clements,
and I appear before council tonight in two capacities,
one as Chairman of the Central City Commission,
the other as President of Citizens Commonwealth
Cooperation, a major business in downtown Charlottesville
and a substantial property owner.
First of all, in both capacities,
I totally support the mall project.
And I don't think that's a surprise to anybody.
Secondly, I'd like to talk a few statistics, which I frankly
am not always pleased to hear.
Because I think you can take numbers
and do most anything with them.
But we've had some numbers thrown at us
from time to time, which have been
uncomplimentary to the idea that we ought to proceed.
And I think we really need to investigate some of these.
Recently, a communication was sent to members of council
and to certain downtown businesses as to what
was happening as far as total sales are concerned
in downtown Charlottesville and the property values.
I'd like to speak to that at the moment, if I may.
First of all is the fair market property values.
And I'm going to take some comparisons, not because we
wish to challenge Barracks Road, but simply
to show what's happening to one of the very vital parts
of our business community.
In 1970, the downtown fair market value properties
were $27,656,400.
And we all know what inflation is done.
In 1974, the downtown fair market property values
are $27,222,800, about $400,000 less than they were in 1970.
Let's look at Barracks Road, for example.
In 1970, the values established there were $6,571,000.